Robert: I do not speak for Dale. However as a longstanding member and someone with a long history of civility...........geez.......let this go. Put down the keyboard and go out a walk or something. Enough....
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 12:20 PM, <mrrabbit@mrrabbit.net> wrote:
> What you pointed out - is spot on history and point wise. But what you are
> asking Dale to do while issuing a final warning to me - is to retroactively
> issue a "boot" to at least two senior members who within the last 2 years
> resorted to outright expletive attacks on me in the public - which I have
> never
>
> done.
>
> Dales standards in the rules, correctly so IMHO, are much higher for that
> than
> lower level insinuations, condecension, negative tone, etc.
>
> Frankly, I would rather move forward. I suspect Dale prefers the same.
>
> Robert Shackelford
> San Jose, CA USA
>
>
>
>
>
> Quoting Raymond Dobbins <raydobbins2003@yahoo.com>:
>
> >
> > Dale,
> > I am not against the idea of enforcement assistants (Dale's Deputies?),
> but I
> > don't think having them would avoid the problem we are faced with now, in
> the
> > future.
> > In my opinion, the problem is not a lack of leadership on your part.
> Â You
> > have no problem deciding what is off-topic, and it seldom takes you more
> than
> > a couple of hours to answer a direct question. Â I suppose a designated
> > deputy would be a good idea for those times when you are unavailable for
> > extended periods, but generally the list runs perfectly well with just
> you
> > making the decisions, and I think most of us prefer it that way.Â
> > Nor is the problem that some people ask questions that could be answered
> by
> > searching the CR archives. Â As you have said before, there is no
> obligation
> > to search the archives or any other source before asking a question. Â As
> > much as it may bother some people, it's OK to ask newbie-type questions.
> > The problem as I see it is that Robert publicly criticizes certain posts
> as
> > off-topic,
> > and publicly chastises members for failing to search the net (not just
> the
> > CR archives) before posting a question. Â Robert knows that he is
> supposed to
> > direct these complaints to you privately, but as he has admitted,
> sometimes
> > he can't help himself.
> > I think the solution to the immediate problem is to issue Robert a final
> > warning to cease and desist from making these public complaints or face
> > immediate suspension. Â If I understand correctly, he has been admonished
> > before, so a final warning would be appropriate.
> > Thanks for asking for our input.
> > Ray DobbinsMiami Florida USA
> >
> > --- On Mon, 6/21/10, oroboyz@aol.com <oroboyz@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: oroboyz@aol.com <oroboyz@aol.com>
> > Subject: [CR] Was: Robert's spoke
> > brouhaha. now: Question for Dale...
> > To: mrrabbit@mrrabbit.net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > Date: Monday, June 21, 2010, 9:40 PM
> >
> > << Dale, ...(snip)... I joined specifically for discussions related
> directly
> > to vintage, classic and KOF items as stated in your CR rules.
> ...(snip)...
> > Are you going to step in more and be more proactive about inforcing the
> CR
> > rules? Seriously Dale, I WANT TO READ PEOPLE's POSTINGS, but the
> filtering
> >
> > quantity-wise gets flat out tiring.
> >
> > My I suggest
> > that you allow a couple others to do the enforcement - the likes
> > of Jerome Moos and Bob Freitas for example? Jerome knows one helluva
> > lot...Bob
> > can be short and direct when it's needed...they have been around
> awhile...the
> >
> > vast majority of us here know who they are.
> >
> > Please address those
> > questions in the plea of sorts above. >>
> >
> >
> > Hmmm.
> > Well the first point to be made is that the list is not moderated, i.e.,
> I do
> > not read & clear messages prior to their
> > being sent to all the members. I get to read them just like everyone
> else.
> > So I am reduced to reading them as I can... and calling people to task
> when
> > and if I see that they have onerously broken the rules. I honestly do not
> > think there are as many annoying violations of the rules as you seem to
> > suffer through Robert! Granted, some things irritate me more than others
> > (rudeness, vulgarity, using the list as a testing ground for pending eBay
> > offerings for instance) But I also remember when I was a newbie in
> computers
> > so maybe I tend to be more understanding with unintentional goofs.Â
> > Of course, I also run a very busy bike shop and organize many cycling
> events
> > so that I miss some mail. In the end, I do what I can and plod along.
> > But taking your
> > question to heart, I do not at all reject the idea of Bob or Jerry
> helping
> > in that way. Both I consider excellent fellow and good friends. What
> say
> > you, fellows?Â
> >
> >
> > Dale
> >
> >
> > Dale Brown
> > cycles de ORO, Inc.
> > 1410 Mill Street #100
> > Greensboro, North Carolina 27408 USA
> > 336-274-5959
> > http://www.cyclesdeoro.com
> > http://www.classicrendezvous.com
> > http://www.carolinacup.com
> > â\u20ac\u0153Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep
> > movingâ\u20ac  A.Einstein
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mrrabbit@mrrabbit.net
> > To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > Sent: Mon, Jun 21, 2010 7:31 pm
> > Subject: Re: [CR] spoke question & snark
> >
> >
> > Okay...
> >
> > Everyone has had their chance to wax poetic,
> > be the knight on the shining horse
> >
> > for the person getting "picked on", rally the wagons, etc., etc., etc.
> >
> > For the past two years, I have made two points over and over - which of
> > course
> > has gotten people all riled up each time:
> >
> > 1. This is a site for the discussion of vintage, classic and KOF bikes,
> > parts,
> >
> > and their history as defined by Dale in the CR rules.
> >
> > 2. This is a site for the discussion of restoration, mechanical repair,
> > etc.,
> > of vintage, classic and KOF bikes and parts as defined by Dale in the CR
> > rules.
> >
> > Now of course, each time everyone has gotten riled up - including some
> > tossing
> > outright profanity at me in public - Dale hops in and both publicly and
> > privately reminds everyone including yours truly that it's his website
> and he
> >
> > enforces the rules.
> >
> > Which is fine by me...for awhile...as I sit quietly and watch over a
> period
> > of
> > 2-3 months a 1000 plus emails land
> > in my inbox of which easily 1/3 are OFF-
> > TOPIC...mostly "attaboys" and general mechanics questions and discussions
> > instead of vintage/classic/KOF specific mechanics questions and
> discussions.
> >
> > Then of course having gotten tired of following the CR rules while
> watching
> > others blatantly violate them - I run into a bad day and stick my ugly
> head
> > up
> > on the radar again - just like this morning.
> >
> > As a case in point, it got so bad at one point awhile back that one
> evening,
> > CR
> >
> > became the new Craigslist Helpdesk. When I pointed that out, I got the
> > usual
> > heat including ad-homs. Surprisingly, even Dale joined in on the attack
> to
> >
> > which I asked paraphrasing:Â "So are you okay Dale with CR becoming a
> > helpdesk
> > for Craigslist when Craigslist already has one?
> >
> > I never did get an answer...
> >
> > So, regarding this morning, let's get down to it:
> >
> > 1. Can I resuse spokes?Â
> > OFF-TOPIC
> >
> > It's a general mechanics question which has been answered a 100+ times
> over
> > at
> > bikeforums.net, forums.cycling.com and USENET courtesy of none other
> than
> > Jobst
> >
> > Brandt and company - all archived by Google, Bing and Yahoo search
> engines.
> >
> > 2. Source for Robergel and Union-Berg? ON-TOPIC
> >
> > I was happy to see that part because it was another reminder that once
> again
> > I
> > really do need to ask about the Berg part - I'm not familiar with it -
> > assuming
> >
> > it's the same Union that I am familiar with.
> >
> >
> > 3. Source for DT Swiss 2.0/1.8? GOES BOTH WAYS
> >
> > Is DT KOF as a spoke? Some would say yes...some would say no...both
> sides
> > are
> > right in my honest opinion. Why did I go off on the poster? Simply
> > because it
> >
> > told me flat out that the poster couldn't be bothered to do a little
> research
> >
> > with a search engine with the 8 fingers and 2 thumbs already splayed
> > out across
> >
> > the keyboard. It took me less than 30 seconds to get a listing - one of
> > which
> > was Harris Cyclery offering custom lengths from blanks.
> >
> > Now before you guys start firing off those rockets again - understand
> that we
> >
> > have had this argument before - and a couple others on this list have
> > expressed
> >
> > the same annoyance that I have with those we can't be bothered to do a
> little
> >
> > work up front with the tools they already have and know how to use
> > beforehand.
> >
> > Am I done yet with that point? Actually not...because not only do
> people
> > not
> > make use of those listed search engines - but they also ignore
> BIKELIST.ORG <http://bikelist.org/>'s
> >
> > own search engine which is linked and noted 3 times over at a minimum
> when
> > you
> > follow the directory to join, follow the directory to browse the
> listings,
> > and
> > when you follow the directory to review the CR rules as I periodically
> do.
> >
> > Dale refuses to say it, but I will.Â
> > Folks that do that in my honest opinion,
> > whether unintentionally or intentionally, are displaying a lack of
> respect
> > for
> > those who maintain the site and list. BIKELIST.ORG<http://bikelist.org/>'s
> seach engine works
> > fine -
> >
> > and even then when a few of us who do use it don't find something - we
> note
> > it
> > and apologize in ADVANCE before posting just in case.
> >
> > Now I am going to wrap things up...with a plea of sorts addressed to Dale
> > more
> > than anyone else:
> >
> > Dale, I joined CR not to experience bikeforums.net, forums.bicycling.comor
> > USENET. I joined specifically for discussions related directly to
> vintage,
> >
> > classic and KOF items as stated in your CR rules. Also I did not join
> to
> > witness an IT helpdesk for Craigslist. Even some of the eBay help stuff
> is
> >
> > crossing the line. eBay also has help forums and a chat forum.
> >
> > It has gotten to the point again where after trying very hard to read
> > people's
> >
> > posts - I find myself realizing, here we go again...and doing a pipe/mv
> of
> > the
> > queues to /dev/null and restarting my qmail on my server.
> >
> > Are you going to step in more and be more proactive about inforcing the
> CR
> > rules? Seriously Dale, I WANT TO READ PEOPLE's POSTINGS, but the
> filtering
> >
> > quantity-wise gets flat out tiring.
> >
> > My I suggest that you allow a couple others to do the enforcement - the
> likes
> >
> > of Jerome Moos and Bob Freitas for example? Jerome knows one helluva
> > lot...Bob
> >
> > can be short and direct when it's needed...they have been around
> awhile...the
> >
> > vast majority of us here know who they are.
> >
> > Please address those questions in the plea of sorts above.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Robert Shackelford
> > San Jose, CA USA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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> > saved in a permanent
> > database.
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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> > saved in a permanent database.
>
>
>
>
> --
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> _______________________________________________
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--
Sadiq Gill
Richmond, Virginia
US&A
Latitude: 37.58
Longitude: -77.51472